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(open) i am not a builder

Who: Bigby and you!
What: An encounter with an old woman and tea - and the possibility of seeing a memory of the Big Bad Wolf.
When: Somewhere between the middle to the end of August.
Where: A little bit outside Milton.

Content Warnings: Gore and people getting eaten (by a wolf) throughout all the memories. Think about the fairy tales about the Big Bad Wolf, those are practically the themes you're dealing with.

[ As it so happens, you and Bigby both seem to have come across the old woman. Maybe you were out there with Bigby while running into her, or maybe it's a total coincidence that you're both sitting here with her. Either way, the end result is the same-- a talk with the old woman, and then the woman moving to offer you both tea.

Bigby seems.. a little unsure of the offer, but he also knows that sometimes refusing is actually the wrong thing to do. You don't want to piss off a witch, after all, and this woman is very mysterious.

So even though he doesn't refuse the offer, he does give you a cautious glance, muttering only loud enough for you to hear: ]

Let's keep an eye on each other, just so we notice if it has some weird effect.

( ooc: this log is an opportunity to see a memory of bigby's past as the big bad wolf! i will be giving different memories to people, so feel free to tag in with a reply to the above starter and then i'll kick in a unique fun (okay, maybe not so fun, actually) memory for the thread!

also, replying with either brackets or prose is fine! i will match! c: )

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[ It's at least the good thing about having Jason here with him. Bigby knows that if something happens, it's not like Jason is just going to abandon him - no matter what he might pretend at times. On the other hand, it also means the Jason is stuck here in this situation too, which is less ideal.

Then again, there's nothing to be done about it. Nothing to be done about this situation in general unless Bigby wants to dare risk whatever this old lady's wrath could be, so he raises the cup to his lips, downing it in one go, like it's a shot rather than tea. Easier to be done with it all at once.

He opens his mouth after he swallows, wanting to tell the younger guy that it doesn't feel like there's something wrong with them, but then it's like their surroundings shift. They're no longer sitting in the woods with the old lady. They are still in the snow, but this place seems even more barren. There's no trees. There's nothing but endless fields of snow, and a huge stone castle standing in the middle of it all.

There's a man in front of the castle. He is a tall, muscled and imposing figure, with hair as white as snow and a mustache. Strangely enough the man looks both ancient and yet intimidating at the same time, like there's a strength to him that doesn't seem to match his age. Like a buff Santa, really.

Bigby instantly grumbles from where he's standing next to Jason: ]

Fucking-- [ At least he doesn't sound scared. He just sounds annoyed.

Worse than annoyed, actually. He looks outright angry when he manages to tear his gaze away from the man for long enough to instead look at Jason. ]

Alright, forget the alarm. It's just a memory.

[ He sure sounds angry though, for this being 'just' a memory.

In the distance a dark wolf is running through the snow towards the castle - and towards the man. ]

( bigby downs the whole thing in one go, which jason would call him out on that being a really stupid move to take, but - eh. guy's thousands of years old, ain't he? if he's that stupid at this age, that's his problem.

jason's a little more cautious. lets it touch his lip enough he can taste it, to see if anything is off about it. aside from it being extremely dissatisfying tea, he can't really - taste anything off about it.

but they go from sitting in the snow with tea and a freaky old lady to standing in the snow with less greenery, which isn't much of an improvement. especially when it becomes evident that bigby is not happy with this change-up. and despite jason intentionally trying to piss him off before, he doesn't take the anger currently radiating off of him as a good opening to really set him off. there's nothing to gain from it, here.

so jason takes a different route.

huffs out a sigh with a shake of his head. )

Damn, and you couldn't give me another two seconds to do the whole "Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore" thing?

( do you hear how disappointed he is, bigby. like waking up after getting bashed in the head is pretty standard, but waking up in another snow-covered hell in one piece at least deserves a line of its own. especially with a guy saying he's the big bad wolf.

maybe he'll just start calling bigby 'toto' anyway. for fun.

except there's a massive fucking wolf that jason catches out of the corner of his eye and he's - stepping to the side, back to bigby but closer, hand hovering over where his knife's settled at his side. his shoulders are a little stiff, but he gets the it's just a memory bit--ish. )

Don't tell me you ate Santa.

That's not Santa, kid.

[ There's not a joke. Sure, there often isn't one with Bigby, but he does make dry remarks most of the time. Especially around Jason, when he wants the other to know that he's not just plainly letting him walk all over him.

Right now there's none of that. There's not even the vaguest hint of playfulness around Bigby. He also seems alert, but in a different way than Jason. He's not anticipating potential danger, but he's anticipating.. something. It's in the set of his shoulders, drawn tight, Bigby's entire body seeming like it's tightly wound up, ready to blow. ]

That's--

[ Bigby doesn't have to say it.

Because it's the large man near the two of them that speaks up first. He lets out a huff, before speaking with a voice that sounds-- strange, almost, like this man is bigger than life in some way, more than just human. ]

This again? Wouldn't the runt know better than to try this all over again? What is this, the fifth time? [ The look in his eyes is cold.

But then again, the huge wolf doesn't look all that much friendlier. But there's no coldness in its eyes - instead there's heat, a burning anger as it snaps back at the man: ] Oh, so now you're paying attention, dear father? Except you aren't, because it's the sixth.

[ Bigby's fist - the human's, obviously - curls up even more tightly into a fist as he watches it all. ]

( jason plays the part of an idiot well enough when it suits him, but despite attempts to throw himself into that box - he's observant. dangerously so, on occasion. bigby doesn't throw any half-attempts to snark back at him, which is telling enough. he's on edge about something, and whatever that something is, it's not good.

which becomes all the more clear when the man speaks up, and the wolf responds. he recognizes that look in the wolf's--bigby's--eyes, recognizes the words even if jason couldn't explain how the hell he can, but it's - uncomfortably close to circumstances jason doesn't want to get into. ones that leave him understanding bigby's lack of retort, has his mouth pressing into a tight line as eyes fall to where the guy's hands are curled into fists.

jason wants to get snarky, wants to offer a ha, daddy issues. really? or something else equally stupid just to see if he can get a rise out of bigby and ease up the tension here, but he instead just - holds his knife by the hilt and raises it towards the guy who isn't santa. )

Bet I can land this right between his eyes.

( it's a memory, ain't it? jason doubts hitting something that isn't there's gonna cause all that much of an issue. )

[ At first it almost seems like Bigby might not answer, given how much his gaze seems to be clued to the scene in front of them, watching the man with the white hair speak. ]

Don't use that name as if you mean anything to me. [ Said man snaps back to the wolf - obviously angry, but his voice low, rumbling, like an incoming thunderstorm. ] You are just like your brothers-- All of you mistakes.

[ ...

Finally Bigby speaks, still looking at the scene, rather than over at Jason. Like either he doesn't want to look at him right now, or he doesn't want to look away from the memory in front of them. ]

Go ahead.

[ His voice is steeled, yet also.. emptier than the usual. It's hard to figure out what emotion is in there, if any at all. ]

You know you won't hit anything anyway. [ It's why Bigby is letting Jason (though he's sure the other would have, even without his permission, because it's Jason). Because he knows this is just a memory, and his asshole father can't lash out at Jason - something Bigby would hate to see happen for an entire mixture of complicated emotions in all directions. ]

( there's no bullshitting his way out of this one. bigby's watching as if he's waiting for the memory to bite him, there's no emotion behind his tone, and jason's stuck here regardless of whether or not he wants to witness whatever's going on between bigby and his dad.

so jason - changes tactics. )

I tried to kill mine, once. ( it's not the same empty tone bigby uses, but more flippant. superficial. like he's not thinking too hard about the words coming out of his mouth. ) After I'd died and come back. I was pissed. Not 'cause I'd keeled over, but because the asshole who'd beaten the shit out of me and blew me up alongside my birth mother was still alive. He hadn't avenged me. I stuck a bomb under his car, where I knew he wouldn't find it in time. Waited until he came back 'round, holding my fingers over the detonator. I was ready for it. To end him. 'til he'd gotten in the car and I'd gone to push the button an' I realized--it wasn't going to fix what happened. It wouldn't make me feel better. Asshole didn't even know I was alive. It wouldn't've meant anything.

[ Honestly?

It's not unlike the scene playing out in front of them right now. The man continues to talk down to Bigby until the latter snaps, launching himself at the man, trying to bite, claw, trying to reach whatever he can. It's desperate enough that it clearly seems like an attempt to kill the other man - and just like Jason, it also doesn't work.

Though unlike Jason, it's because the man easily bats the wolf away from him like the creature is nothing but a fly. The wolf is sent flying through the air, so far away that he disappears from sight, and the tall man just sighs - like he took care of a particularly annoying chore, rather than having had an attempt made on his life - before opening the door and moving into the building, leaving just the human version of Bigby and Jason standing there in the snow.

For a moment he says nothing. Nothing about the scene, nothing about Jason's confession.

Then he finally exhales a breath he doesn't seem to realize he was holding in the first place. ]

Makes you wonder why people even bother to fucking have kids in the first place.

[ If they're just going to ignore them. If they're just going to let them die, or let the other parent die and do nothing about it.

If this doesn't even just happen to one kid, but to multiple kids, over and over and over, like he and Jason are both links in some fucked up multiversal chain. ]

( he's telling part of the story, here.

missing the part where bruce slashed into his throat, left jason bleeding out in the rubble of the building that'd exploded around him after he'd come back to gotham and overtaken cartels. where jason had given him a choice: let jason kill joker, or kill joker to prevent jason from doing it, and bruce had instead almost killed jason. had refused to break his one goddamn rule by almost killing his own son instead of picking one of the two options jason had given him. but jason leaves that unspoken. there's no need to get into his messes here. )

You have a kid here, don't you?

( they can focus on bigby's shit instead. )

Connor's from the future. [ Bigby doesn't talk with many people about what Connor is to him for an entire variety of complicated reasons, but.. it's not like he's going to deny it when someone has already figured it out. He's not even going to withhold the name, because when you know one aspect about this fact, it's easy enough to know the other. ] Don't even know how far.

[ Especially with their lifespans. It could be anything. Connor could be centuries away from where Bigby is in his life right now. Maybe just as far away from his current self as this moment was, now left as nothing but an empty snowy mountain in front of their eyes. ]

.. I have no clue why my future self decided to have him.

[ It's a bit of an honest admission.

No, more than just a bit. It's the reason Bigby can't look at Jason directly as he speaks, because he knows he'll stop speaking the moment he does. ]

There's no way I could ever be a good father when all I have to go by is that jackass. [ Probably not much more of an explanation required there, given what Jason was just able to witness with his own eyes. ] It's a goddamn miracle Connor doesn't resent me.

Maybe future you didn't decide to have him. Maybe he just forgot to bring a condom.

( as a guy who is pretty sure he wasn't a planned pregnancy, it's not like the rubber breaking or just - being nonexistent once and them going eh, fuck it, what's the likelihood of anything happening? sounds apt. the real way to beat the system is clearly to never be with anyone for any amount of time or reason because then one avoids even the slimmest likelihood of having a kid.

unless their dna gets stolen and cloned but. can't help that. not that it'd be a problem jason'd have. bruce already has one baby they're a little unsure of how he came into existence. well. kind of. )

But I don't think it works that way. ( a hand raises, gesturing off in the distance the guy disappeared in. ) You've got the best example of what not to do, don't you? You recognize what he did that was wrong, an' you acknowledge your own shitty behavior. That's better than a good two-thirds of parents I know.

[ It's a possibility, honestly. The only reason Bigby thinks it's not very likely is since Connor had been so explicit about the fact that his mother and Bigby both had been part of his life, but.. then again, maybe Bigby just stepped up despite it being an accident. God knows he wouldn't want to abandon a kid the way his father had done without a second thought.

He doesn't remark anything about it out loud though, despite turning over the idea in his head. Instead it's left Bigby quiet, only speaking up when Jason is done talking - letting out a huff. ]

Two-thirds?

[ Jason. Jason. There's some real implications there, dude.

Because two-thirds, when surely Jason has to have or have had two parents too at some point-- ]

Please tell me you know parents other than me. [ And Jason's own, but he's pretty sure they both caught onto that implication. Is he really just saying his own parents were that shitty? ]

Obviously.

( look, he's even raising his hands and after a moment of thinking it over, starts counting off - )

My old man. In prison and dead by the time I was - five? Six? Something like that. A shitty, piece of garbage human being. My mom tried her damn best but OD'd on the bathroom floor a few years after. Didn't get back up. Got a lot of old pals from the Alley, whose parents were also thugs, dead before they made it to double digits, abusive fucks, addicts, street workers who'd bring home johns. Ignore the Alley, and you've still got the assholes who thought it'd be just swell to abuse the hell out of their kids and raise 'em to be weapons. That counts for - at least three people I know personally. Then there's the asshats who've kicked their kids out when they needed help, instead of, y'know, helping them.

Might have to switch that number to three-fourths, now that I'm thinking about it.

( he's out of fingers to count on. though jason has a feeling this is more a jason problem than... anything else. no one points at slade and thinks decent parent, but here's jason, occasionally messing around with rose. oliver queen isn't absolutely shit, but he's pulled crap moves on roy. there was a brief moment in time when jason thought cass' mother might be his, but regardless of if you're counting the assassin who abandoned her or her father who raised her to be the perfect killer - they both suck. there's talia, damian's mother. he's not specifying crap, because other people's mess isn't his to spill, and even if it was, well. it runs a little too close to home.

bruce is a shitty parent, but he tries. occasionally. which is way better than most of the ones jason knows. he's not counting him towards the number of crappy ones, so that one-fourth he's leaving for decentish parents may be... even less.

point being: from what he knows of bigby, he's not making the crappy parent list. )

[ It's not like it's the first time Bigby is hearing stuff about this. He generally doesn't really bother himself with mundy events, but even among the Fables things aren't always that great - especially lately, but even back in the Homelands. Isn't his own father an absolutely stellar example of that?

But it sounds like Jason was absolutely surrounded on all sides by this crap. It's saying a whole lot about him, and about why he is the way he is. With how little Bigby knows about the guy, sometimes it feels like small puzzle pieces are falling into shape, even if they don't form the full image just yet.

Bigby sighs.

He looks like he isn't entirely sure what to say.

Then, slowly-- ]

Look, if you ever talk to Connor, don't tell him about any of this shit.

[ He's mostly saying it because it feels kind of inevitable that either Jason will seek out Connor, or Connor will come across Jason. Jason is too much of a nosy little shit in his own way, and Connor is way too social for his own good. Bigby couldn't keep the two separated forever even if he'd try, probably. ]

Don't tell him about what? You fighting with your dad, growing up in the Alley, or that you aren't complete shit?

( chances of jason keeping his mouth shut aren't - terribly low. he's good at keeping secrets when they feel like they're worth keeping. just as he's also good at running his mouth when it feels like the benefits of blabbing outweigh the cost of it. jason hasn't met connor yet, hasn't yet figured out where the threshold for information shared should rest with the kid. adult. whatever he is. given jason's stolen some of his clothes before, he's putting the guy at most likely full grown, at least, so - what, late teens, early to mid-twenties? something like that. jason's age, so possibly not a kid at all.

he'll have to go out and find him later. but for now, he just - starts in the direction the old man went off in. it's not his head, the polite thing would be to not snoop. but jason never claimed to have decent manners. )

You can tell him whatever you want about yourself. That's your own choice. [ And it's not like Bigby is going to dictate anything about that. Jason is his own guy, and Connor is old enough to be able to handle whatever horrifying stories Jason apparently holds within him. Connor may be a kid, sure, but he's also still a Fable. He's used to much more horrifying stuff than your average mundy. ] Just not any of the shit about me.

[ So not A and C, apparently. Though Bigby is pretty sure Connor already knows about the first part.

Maybe it's just the latter then. Maybe Bigby is afraid to be built up as someone he doesn't know how to be. Someone he can't live up to.

He glances over, realizing the other is trying to walk off and into the castle, but.. Bigby doesn't really stop him. It's a memory. Not like anything here could hurt Jason. Both of them seem to have been going unnoticed so far.

He casts a last glance in the direction where the younger him was just blown off into, but then averts his gaze to follow Jason instead, still wanting to keep somehwat of an eye on him.

Not to mention that Bigby has got to say: ] Hell, this is probably the most you've ever told me about you.

[ Especially when past comparison material is.. well, Jason literally not telling him a damn thing. Not even his name. ]

( he doesn't know what could be found within this memory. walking through others' heads isn't exactly jason's expertise; he knows others who can walk through memories, read minds, and manipulate them if it comes down to it, but jason? he's just a guy. maybe one who is more durable than most others, but outside of his unexpected return from death, there's nothing extraordinary about him. it's how jason likes it.

but he's also a nosy asshole who, since he's been allowed to meander through someone else's head, figures may as well. bigby isn't stopping him from wandering, just tagging along behind him. )

I'm not a big talker. ( it's a lie, albeit an unintentional one. once someone gets jason going, he can talk for forever. about the shit he went through as a kid, about how amazing it felt to become robin, to finally be able to be something more than just an alley kid from gotham. how it made him feel like he was full of magic. the joys of being allowed to go to school with other kids, even if he didn't have enough free time in the afternoons to pick up all the extracurriculars he'd wanted to get involved in. how much it'd hurt when his birth mother betrayed him. how he still hears the joker's laugh ringing in his ears during bad days, how occasionally, just the wrong sound can send him spiraling back to that fateful day when he was curled up on the floor of a warehouse, waiting for a savior who'd never come while enduring more than any kid should ever have to.

it's the identifying information he avoids. not for himself, but for everyone else. jason todd died at fifteen and never came back. he can't be permitted to be alive here either, not when tim and damian are out there. ) But I am an open book.

( with a grin thrown over his shoulder to bigby. that lie? intentional. and he's still not giving bigby a name. he could give him john malone like he's given everyone else, but something tells him to avoid giving bigby his pseudonym. )

You can ask whatever.

[ It seems like the memory does extend somewhat. Not that there's any event happening, considering that Bigby's memory of the confrontation ends there, but it seems like Bigby does remember the castle's interior - like he may have been there before, like a different confrontation may have extended just enough for him to actually get inside.

So when Jason moves inside, he'll get to see the castle's large entry hall. It's very much like you might imagine from a fantasy castle, really. Old-fashioned interior, very spacious, but also very.. empty. It's likely not a surprise that Bigby's father's personality does not exactly allow for a whole lot of company.

And despite Bigby voluntarily following Jason inside, there's a part of him that looks a little awkward once he's actually in there. Like he'd rather not be here. Bigby tries to mask it, but it's not a perfect effort, especially not if Jason looks at him. ]

You haven't even told me your name, jackass.

[ It's not an inquiry, though. It's not worded like one. It's just that Bigby can't help but point that out in the face of the other's teasing. ]

Is there anything else I should know about you? I prefer just getting to know people as they are, rather than by anything from their past. [ For obvious reasons, perhaps, given how much Bigby's own past sticks to him in every single interaction he's ever had in his life back home. ]

You haven't asked for it.

( he could give it, given bigby's mentioned his lack of sharing, but what fun would that be? especially given - jason's not sure what name to give here. he answers to red hood in most circles, jason todd among family, and - what, mal among most of those he's given his name to here? sansa knows him as red, which is - a name with a lot less attachment to it, one he can offer without getting complicated about it. if he can successfully manage to keep away from the others.

names are complicated. answering the question of who he is - is even harder for jason. bigby asks if there's anything else he should know, and jason turns around towards him with a raised brow. )

Hell if I know. Kind of a loaded question, ain't it? What do you think you should know about people? I break into my old man's place all the time just to fuck with shit, whereas you look like you're gonna hurl just walking into the memory of whatever the hell this place is called.

( 'break in', not visit. jason could just walk in the front door of the wayne manor, usually, and he's well-aware of that. but what fun would that be? )

That relevant to your shoulds, or?

All I need to know is whether you're going to cause trouble-- and the answer to that seems to be no.

[ A claim Jason may protest. A claim objective reality may protest, really, given everything that Jason has already done to Bigby at this point - but that's not the sort of trouble he means. People harassing him is pretty normal.

He means whether or not Jason is going to be a danger to the town, and aside from one impulsive dumb fight, Bigby hasn't really noticed any signs of that.

Unless there's something big he's missing. ]

And what's potentially going to cause trouble for you.

[ There's no remark about what Jason said about this place, or the way it makes Bigby look.

Mostly because the man is absolutely avoiding saying anything about that. Purposefully so. Maybe it's why there's something a little tight at the edges of his voice, trying to steer this conversation down a very specific track. Not devolving into things he can't afford to think about right now. ]

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(open) i am not a builder

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cw: drug use, overdose, child abuse.

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