singillatim | august catch-all.

( it's the kind of listen he gets from bruce, right before he usually opts to stop listening because fuck people telling him what to do. but bigby hasn't pissed him off to that extent, yet. and he isn't bruce. )

I know you don't. ( it's part of why he keeps coming back to bigby: jason hasn't told him shit, but he knows that the guy'll get it. if jason opened his mouth and explained everything he did when he was angry - well. it's not like he went around killing innocents, they all did deserve it. he doesn't regret it. he does regret hurting tim, and damian, and dick. but that's part of what he's worried about. )

The asylum was my brother. ( not bruce. Bruce did leave him in there, which bothered him for reasons completely unrelated to being in arkham. it was the asshole he was sharing walls with, the laughter echoing throughout the facility. ) He knew they wouldn't be able to keep me in a jail cell. I'm not a lunatic, just trained too well. Couldn't tell you if it was the right move, but it was the smart one.

( bigby doesn't care what he did. why he deserved it. but jason cares. )

I told you I came back from the dead. But no one comes back right from that. I was so goddamn angry. I am angry.

( his head drops, elbow pressing against his thigh so he can shove his palm against his forehead and shove fingers through his hair. )

It's not about what I did, it's - what I will do. ( with a shake of his head, fingers tightening. ) I shot a guy straight through his stupid pea-brain-filled skull. An' I don't regret it. I'd do it again, asshole deserved it. Hell, I've done a hell of a lot worse before. That's the problem. Some people, some monsters, deserve to die.

[ Bigby has dealt with a lot of stuff in his life. He's lived a life that's far from what any ordinary human could imagine, really.

And yet this is new to him. He doesn't even know what to fucking do about it. He's sitting here with a guy that's young enough to fully be still a kid in Bigby's eyes, and said kid is talking about being put into an asylum like it's an okay thing. Just because he was angry. Just because he went through more than any mundy should have, and it doesn't sound like he ever got the support necessary to deal with that. And then things apparently just got gradually more and more fucked along the way.

What do you say to that? Bigby doubts that Jason came to him expecting actual advice. Maybe he just wanted to vent, but..

He can't just say nothing to do this, right?

Goddammit, he's going to need an entire carton of cigarettes after this. ]

So you're killing people that deserve it. [ God, does he sound like a therapist? He hopes not. He doesn't even feel like one, but he-- how does he even get through to this stubborn kid's head? ] I don't see how that's a problem worth treating you like that over.

( the difficult part about explaining himself here is that - jason can't explain this part. because some people do deserve death. there are monsters in the world who don't deserve to live, who should be put down, for the good of everyone else. he hunches over a bit, elbows on his thighs and head resting on a palm as he tries to figure out how the hell to word this.

gives up, because there's no good way to do it. jason understands bruce's reasons for being how he is. he's seen what happens when he decides to not follow his code. it's just not a code jason himself subscribes to. )

This ain't my first rodeo getting stuck in different universes.

( easy way to start. his head lifts, grabbing back onto the bottle he'd brought along with him to take a drink. )

Let's say - you're a vigilante, right? You put on a stupid mask and go 'round telling a bunch of criminals to fuck off and stop with their bullshit. But you've got a rule: no killing. Ever. 'cause you know damn well the moment you decide to start killing off the assholes who commit crimes, you're just gonna start killing all of 'em. Why stop with one death, when you can just put an end to every damn rogue out there? But you won't, 'cause you know better. You know once you start, you're not gonna stop. You take on a sidekick, then another, an' pass that same shit on to them. Then one of your little sidekicks goes off, gets blown up, dies, and comes back - what, four years later? After slaughtering a shitton of rapists, murderers, child traffickers, and taking over the entire drug trafficking ring in your city. A murderer, murdering other murderers. Therefore, another criminal, and it's your job to lock 'em all up.

[ That sure is painting a picture.

A picture where Bigby knows exactly where Jason fits in, given what the other has told him. He is that sidekick. The one that died, came back, started killing. Does that mean Tim was another one of the sidekicks? It might explain why he's so.. weird, really. Even if he's so different from Jason.

He could say a lot here, but he's said most of it already. That this doesn't change his opinion of Jason. Not even these words.

So rather than repeating that, he asks-- ]

Is that the guy that showed up here? That masked guy?

[ No name. And probably not wearing a mask in the middle of a town where it'd stand out. Hard to figure out who Jason is talking about, but at least it's something go on. ]

Yeah.

( bruce hasn't tried to put jason away in a while. he'd kept out of his hair for a long time, and when he'd come back, he'd - followed the rules. operated in gotham using batman's moral code as a guideline, up until he'd read up on what penguin did. it was stupid, and reckless, something he shouldn't have done at all but he doesn't regret it. asshole deserved a bullet to the face.

he only regrets how fucked it's going to make him in the long run. artemis and bizzaro needed his help but he was too busy getting his ass kicked by bruce to be of any use. and with what he did, on live television, batman can't just let the red hood get away with it. it's not like he's the joker.

the bottle gets raised to his mouth again, so jason can take another big swig from it. )

My dad. The one who'd adopted me, not the - shittier one.

Why the hell would your dad care if you kill people or not?

[ Maybe a strange question out of context. Or by normal people standards. But Bigby is the Big Bad Wolf, and he does come from a fantasy world with fantasy morals - the idea of killing doesn't seem like that big of a sin to him. The problem was never that he killed in the past as much as the fact that he killed for the wrong reasons from Bigby's perspective.

So-- ]

It's not like you're being a damn psychopath about it. You're just doing it to people who deserve it. [ Makes perfect sense to him! Sometimes it's just the only way to stop someone. ] I'm pretty sure Connor's killed too, and I don't give a shit about that, let alone making life hard for him because of it.

[ Bigby is frowning.

Mostly because the idea of someone giving Jason shit for it doesn't exactly sit right either, especially if the guy in question is claming to be Jason's adoptive dad. ]

Edited 2024-10-17 16:26 (UTC)

( why would people care if he kills people or not.

bigby asks it like it's such a strange concept: people giving a crap about something like murder. back in the alley, it was kill or be killed half the time. a dog-eat-dog world, full of things that go bump in the night just waiting to ruin you. it's where jason had grown up - learning to fend for himself, knowing he needs to make choices no one wants to be forced to make to survive.

before he'd gotten pulled into wayne manor. before the fancy galas, before he'd had a closet full of fresh clothes whenever he'd wanted them, an endless amount of food, and someone there to take care of him when he was feeling under the weather. he knows both sides well.

still doesn't know how to answer this though. or at least not well. )

How'd shit go for you? When you'd decided to be less big, bad wolf and more just - ( a hand, gesturing vaguely towards bigby. the whole of him. whatever that is. )

[ He huffs. ]

People hated me. [ A slight pause, like a realisation, and then he adds-- ] Hate me. Present tense, really.

[ It's why Bigby is so surprised every single time he runs into someone in this place who treats him relatively decently. He isn't used to it. It makes sense, considering a whole lot of people here don't really understand the implication of what he is, even when they know he's the Big Bad Wolf and all, but it's still weird every single time.

So he gets it. He gets why people would hate you for doing that sort of thing, but-- ]

But this is your father we're talking about. [ Bigby doesn't think his own father gives two shits that he killed people.

.. though for entirely different reasons. His father doesn't give two shits in general. ]

You didn't make it sound like you thought he was a bad guy before. So why would he treat you this way over something like that?

Edited 2024-11-03 18:49 (UTC)

He isn't a bad guy.

( it's jason who is. intentionally so. he's thrown away the rules more times than he can count and said fuck it, the world sucks, heroes can't be ideals and still get the job done. someone has to stoop down to the same level as the bad guys, and if that just happens to be jason - well. he can kill a monster and continue going about his day, it won't break him like it would break bruce. hell. wonder woman understands that sometimes, leaving them alive isn't an option.

bruce has chosen his hill to die on, and jason's not going to stop him from doing so. )

His moral code is just - more black and white than yours or mine is. An' it's fine. It just--makes shit like being stuck in close quarters harder to navigate.

[ Jason...

Bigby can't put his finger on what exactly the problem is that's going on here, but there's such an obvious problem with every single word the other is saying that Bigby has no clue how Jason himself isn't noticing it. It feels like it's staring Bigby right in the face. ]

Do you think you should be okay with whatever people want to do to you, just because their moral code is different?

[ Judging by Bigby's tone - look, he isn't a particularly subtle guy, and his eyebrows are definitely drawn together into a big worried frown at this point - he sure doesn't think so. ]

No.

( the answer comes quick, before jason has time to think over what he's saying, or what bigby's implying. his voice is firm, not leaving room for questioning around it because it's - jason grew up in crime alley, before bruce. grew up surrounded by people whose moral codes should have gotten them thrown in prison. many of them got their comeuppance, eventually. but not all of them.

except jason also gets where that leaves him with all the shit he's said about bruce. )

B's not a shitty guy. Alright? Hell, if anything, it'll be me losing my shit at someone here that messes everything up. He's not going to fuck me over for nothing, the problem here's me.

First time I've heard you say that.

[ Okay, granted, Jason has not always expressed very healthy sentiments. But it feels like the first time where it's dipped into this - where the other will blame himself so much for everything that he'll even accept the worst shit.

Even though Bigby's self image isn't always the most health thing either, he at least likes to think he wouldn't be okay with anyone locking him up in an asylum just because they don't agree with the things he does. Especially not someone close to him.

It's agitation and worrying all at once, but he's able to shove down most of the emotion, sticking to something a little more nonchalant on the surface for the moment. ]

Does that mean you're also okay with me doing whatever the hell I want to you? Or am I the shitty guy?

( he's quiet, for a moment. stuck between irritated bigby isn't getting it and wanting to bitch at him for his inability to listen while also understanding that what bigby's seeing here is - jason's side. he wasn't there when jason came back to gotham, he wasn't there the first time jason ran a blade across tim's throat, nor when he attacked him in his own goddamn tower, which - the lack of a statue bit, completely reasonable, he's still a little pissed about that. but beating the shit out of tim just for being tim wasn't right. the manic cackle when bludhaven went up in flames, when grayson could have been dead, when jason was hurting and bruce suspected he may have lost another son. almost killing tim and damian. he's seeing jason as he is right now, not what he could become the moment something goes wrong, not what he has been before.

not what he really is either.

so he drops it. puts down the bottle in his hand, and focuses his eyes on bigby instead.

raises a brow. )

You want to go a round?

[ Bigby lets out the exasperated sigh of ~~a parent~~ someone who has heard this often enough.

And yet it's not a rejection, despite the sigh. No, there's the sigh, and then Bigby turning his head to look over at Jason. ]

Not in the damn house.

[ Though the other surely knows that much. It'd be one thing if just Bigby lived here, but the last thing he wants to do is give the wrong example to Connor, or to piss off Snow. ]

Get your ass outside, then we can.

( it says a lot - how jason didn't just immediately start throwing fists as soon as the conversation turned in a direction he couldn't control. how he asked; he's trying, even if it's not quite as much as he should be.

because bigby sighs, and jason grins. tries to throw off how tense trying to talk through bruce's bullcrap had made him. he's a little tipsy, but not nearly enough to throw off his balance when he pulls himself up to his feet and starts towards the door. )

Weapons, or nah?

Definitely not.

[ Partially because Bigby really doesn't prefer those in the first place - it's part of being a wolf, really - but also because he doesn't really want Jason to use those when he's clearly dealing with a lot.

Some might not think agreeing to a fight is a proper way of letting someone younger than you work through this, but Bigby thinks it's fine. It's just better if it's weaponless, so he has a little more control over the situation than he would if Jason were to use weapons.

He slowly gets off the couch, as if he just agreed to something far more casual than a fight. Bigby even stretches, rather than heading out right away. ]

Turning into a wolf's fine though.

( boring, but fair. jason prefers his toys when possible, but when bigby gets himself up, jason starts sifting through his jacket to pull out the weapons he is carrying to drop them down onto the couch.

agreeing not to use them is one thing. sticking by it when he's throwing hands is something else entirely. but jason does recognize his own faults there. down on the couch is jason's kris blade, a few spools of wire, the couple batarangs he'd gotten off of damian, a few other throwing knives that were clearly hand-sharpened out of metal pieces and treated in a goddamn fireplace, rather than anything made prettily. )

That's your thing, not mine.

( even if he can shift now, and has when a situation called for it. )

august catch-all.

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